what needs to be done to increase the fan base and popularity of unlimited hydroplane racing

[Tim Matyn]

I have tried to start a discussion about the "state of the sport" and what needs to be done to increase its fan base, which will result in greater sponsor interest, more media exposure, more races, TV covereage, etc., etc., etc.

I have already given my thoughts on the discussion tab of the H1 Unlimited website, but I would like to hear more input from more fans, and more input from H1 on their plans. Comments?

[William Black]

The photo was taken in Tri-Cities. I liked your blog about failing wood shop etc...as I am certainly NOT a pro wood worker or metal worker for that matter but as you can see with persistence and a lot of calls to the Thriftway crew we amatures in Joplin got er done. I too grew up in Seattle and watched the GALE V win the Gold Cup. Yes it has taken a lot of resources and we're not done. I have most of the system parts including three Allisons. We are installing these systems and plan to run the boat with the Thriftway....I think it would  be neat to run in Seattle recreating the '55 Gold Cup but generating enough interest amoung the race planners seems problematic... we can dream though. The vintagehydroplanes.com site has pics of the build.

Bill

Phil Lampman said:

Oh, yeah...

 

Where was that photo taken? What are the plans for getting the Gale V back into the water?, if any.

 

I'm not sure which makes me more pleased; the notion that both of these icons - though replicas - may again appear together on the water, or that there are some terrific people out there who are willing to spend the money - lots of money  - to build these boats "again". Sadly, like the original hulls, Muncey and Cantrell are both gone. But to those of us who grew up with the rivalry and the thunder, it's easy to imagine them both on the water again.

 

Make it happen, somebody...

William Black said:

Phil,  Just as a little tease...here is the first picture of the Thriftway and GALE V together since 1956.

Bill

[Bob Albrecht]

I have only watched the hydros at Lake Washington and Pasco. I think the whole sport was ruined when they started charging to get into the public parks.to see races. I know attendance went way down after that. Another factor was when the wussy Californians started moving to Seattle they forced the ban on alcohol at the parks. I remember people wheeling kegs into the park during the races. I think the cost for tying up to the log boom went way up too. If we start giving the public greater access there would be more fans and big sponsorship. It is a no brainier really, bring back the glory days by undoing all the stuff that changed. (safety excluded) The turbines do sound like hair dryers, sorry.

I grew up next door to Harvey Hunter (big fan), and I thought unlimited hydroplane racing was the most popular sport in the world. I think at one time the hydros held the world record for the most fans at a single sporting event. (500,000). Now I don't live in WA any more and very few people know about the sport.

[Bob Albrecht]

At least at Lake WA the boats should all come flying out from under the bridge at 200+ mph on the start as a tribut to Slo-Mo. The fans would love it!


Mark A Baldwin said:

We all would like to see the the sport of unlimited hydroplane racing to be like it was in the days of yor.

But like any other sport of this nature times and equiptment have changed do to technology.

Boat design as well as powerplants have evolved since the 1950's.

I like the change to the boats fighting for their startings lanes.Have them estabished prior to exiting the

exit bouy on the start turn.This might also reguvinate the flying start.As you remember was a exilerating experience.

Also alter the race course back to 3 or more nautical miles.Widening the turns and straightaways.

Make the preliminary heats 5 laps instead of 3 as they are now.Might be a formula for greater competition.

Extend the championship heat to 6 or maybe 7 laps.This current slow bog to the start line is fan condusive.

I like the two day race schedule.It gives the fans some racing action for both days.

The addition of the unlimited lights is also a great attraction.It gives the fans added hydroplane action between heats.

We also need more commercial sponser envolvement.Not meaning more party barges but monetary endowenents.

Making it more afforebable for new fans to come and watch the races.Sitting lakeside on the beach as times

gone by.I was raised in the Rainier Beach area all my life.There were two things all always wanted to be as a kid.

First was to be an unlimited hydroplane driver.Second was to be a fullback for the Washington Huskies.

At my age both are gone.But to this day I would give my left *** to still drive in unlimiteds.

May long live this sport.Unlimited hydroplane racing to me is not a sport,it is a spectacle.

 

Thank You

 

Mark A Baldwin

 

[Tim Matyn]

Mark,

I agree with your comment that times and technology have changed the sport, but I think the problem is that the sport hasn't changed with the times the way it must to attract new fans.  First, I would suggest that the days when most people are willing to devote their entire weekend to see an event are gone.  There are just too many things going on which compete for their attention.  Second, with only 10 or 12 boats at every event it doesn't make sense that the race should take two days to complete, and I suggest that many potential fans are unwilling to spend so many hours to see an event that actually lasts for only a few minutes.  With the consistency of the turbine engines I don't understand why the sport continues to allow so much time between heats.  As Chip Hanauer recently suggested, the whole event should be run in three or four hours!  (Even the Indy 500 race, with 33 cars going five hundred miles is finished within 3-4 hours.)  And finally, the people running the sport need to take whatever steps are necessary to make the races more competitive, just as most car racing organizations have.  Until they make these changes, I agree with your comment that the race is more of a spectacle than a sport.  No professional sport would allow one or two of the contestants to win all of the events just because they have the most money to buy the best talent, equipment, etc..  These changes could be done incrementally and "above board with no gimmicks."  Identical propellers, skid fins, or whatever.  Wouldn't it be great if every race was truly competitive?  The media stopped paying attention to the unlimiteds when Miss Budweiser started winning most of the events, and the people running the sport didn't dare to "bite the hand that was feeding them."  But the Budweiser is gone, and I would suggest that it is time to take the sport back from the people who are winning everything now primarily because they have the biggest bank account!  What say the rest of you???

 

[Phil Lampman]

I think I need to get a job and not spend so much time on this forum.

As I've said before, the ideas and suggestions on this thread have been and continue to be well thought out and expressed. What I think is missing is that we're all Unlimited Hydroplane enthusiasts (I purposely omitted the term "rabid", but...) and not members of the group to which Tim alludes in his original appeal for discussion. While I think we all value the input thus far, it's all been from people like myself that have been around the sport since the "glory days". We are probably the worst people to engage in the conversation. Most of us will show up for a race even if we had to stand for the entire event, up to our collective necks in mud.

I believe the real answer to Tim's request for input needs to come from those who DON'T attend the races or even watch them on TV. How one collects that data is far beyond my skills in marketing and promotion. So far, the discussion has been between us who love the sport. We're going to remain part of the fan base regardless...

That said, we may not like the information we get back from the people we need to get their butts - and their families - down to lakeside or on the river bank. Seafair ran a survey a few years ago - I don't recall the medium - asking people which events they enjoyed most during the annual celebration. The responses clearly indicated the air show (read, Blue Angels) was the most popular event. Fortunately, the hydro races managed to eke out a second place in the survey results. At least they finished ahead of community celebrations, parades (probably because the Seafair clowns scared the kids and the Seafair Pirates scared the adults) dog shows and 5K running events. I don't recall if the arrival of the Navy "fleet" was even mentioned, though I believe it is little more these days than turning 4,000 sailors from some aircraft carrier loose in Downtown Seattle.

So, we can continue discussing this forever. I hope we do actually, but the real solution has to come from others, especially those who aren't even aware of our discussion. In addition, H1 and the event organizers for any such event need to be responsive. I suspect H1 is even more anxious to attract new fans to the sport than we are.

The addition of Air National Guard support to the series is certainly one step in that direction. The possibility of further foreign events, vis-a-vis the Doha event, may help even further.

Time will tell, right?

[Randall E. Roe]

 I believe it was no less than Dwight Thorne who commented that to produce "new" Merlins they would be approx. $1million A PIECE ! That isn't going to happen- ever ! Of course all the teams with turbine engine parts inventories would have to unload them before they could switch over to, say blown Automotive type engines. Are you going to buy it up for "the good of the sport"? Didn't think so. The majority of teams in our sport have been running, for a long time on about sprint car budgets, probably 1/5 of what ARCA, ALM, Grand Am teams run on (which isn't even in the same time zone as Indy Car,   let alone NASCAR)

[Tim Matyn]

Randall, who said anything about producing new Merlins?  I don't have a problem with turbines, and my understanding is that all of the boats are now running the same engines.  But obviously there are other components that can give a team a "technology" advantage over everyone else.  Propellers, skid fins, rudders, stabilizer wings, etc.  It seems to me that one way to "equalize" the competition is by having all contestants use identical props, rudders, skid fins, etc. (They could also limit each team to one or two engines per race.)  If you don't make everyone use the same equipment, the "wealthy" teams will always have an advantage. Budweiser was most often the winner because they bought the best equipment, mechanical expertise, and driving expertise.  I guess that's OK if you don't mind seeing the same one or two boats win over and over.  But it is my opinion that it drives away many more fans than it attracts. 

[Randall E. Roe]

I guess I don't quite have the Reply format figured out yet!, someone remarked about going back to the noise, etc. A.K.A. Aircraft V-12's or Blown V-8's.Thats what I was referring to. They (H1) started weighing propellers last year, so there may be something like a minimum  weight coming along, but standardizing them won't work because there is enough of a difference in the boats that what works good on Boat A, may for example make Boat B a flightly hand full that  the driver can't handle. With the reliability of the turbines we run one engine all day lots of times now.
.Tim Matyn said:

Randall, who said anything about producing new Merlins?  I don't have a problem with turbines, and my understanding is that all of the boats are now running the same engines.  But obviously there are other components that can give a team a "technology" advantage over everyone else.  Propellers, skid fins, rudders, stabilizer wings, etc.  It seems to me that one way to "equalize" the competition is by having all contestants use identical props, rudders, skid fins, etc. (They could also limit each team to one or two engines per race.)  If you don't make everyone use the same equipment, the "wealthy" teams will always have an advantage. Budweiser was most often the winner because they bought the best equipment, mechanical expertise, and driving expertise.  I guess that's OK if you don't mind seeing the same one or two boats win over and over.  But it is my opinion that it drives away many more fans than it attracts. 

[Robert W. Albrecht Sr.]

I saw my first hydro race in 1956.  Great event!

In 1955 Tex Johnston flew over Lake Washington and rolled the 367-80 (prototype of 707) TWICE!

Haven't been many Boeing flybys since.

Maybe a Dreamliner flyby would attract a crowd.  I don't imagine they would roll it though.

[John Wiener]

  We have the technology, we have the speed, we have great young drivers, we don't seem to have the innovators in the sport. With out innovation this sport has become boring, same year in and out. Remember the days of when every year brought something new in boat racing.

   Make this sport about the fans and not the people who are involved in the sport, your job is entertainment and nothing more. Look what happened to open wheel racing and the snobs that ran it into the dirt. Boat racing is not dead yet, but keep up the attitude and you will seal its fate.

   I do believe that piston powered boats will attract more fans, as we can all relate to the combustion engine. From the beach I can not tell 150mph from 170mph, but I can tell a side by side race from a parade lap. I would like to see someone to build a twin automotive powered hydroplane they may not be as fast as a turbine, but certainly more exciting. If you build it they will come. How about a unlimited class for piston powered hydroplanes, that would only race against other piston powered boats. Keep in mind it would have to be UNLIMITED. Let the innovators do the rest. Relying on vintage hydros and recreating the past is not going to take this sport anywhere. This sport needs a reboot!!

[Randall E. Roe]

The First part of the problem, John - is no one can afford to be wrong on a big gamble. Bud is long gone, they were the last ones who had the budget to really experiment. The second part is a brutal reality of what racing is in the 21st century, all major forms of racing, Indy car, Top Fuel & Funny Car,Nascar have had to be slowed down. The days of the 50's and 60's, of always going faster, of aproaching the next "barrier" are over. The teams that have everything invested in turbines can't just sell them for scrap and switch to something else. I think we have reached the point where automotive based engines could get the job done, but it probably would have to be someone new coming in that hasn't got  a big turbine powertrain investment

[Tim Matyn]

Randall,

I agree that it would be unfair to expect current teams to abandon their investment in turbines, but why not slowly improve the competitiveness of the races by standardizing the components?  Maybe, propellers firsr? The argument I've heard against this is that every boat is different so the best prop for one boat wouldn't be the best for another.  My answer is use a standard that is produced for all teams--not one that is currently used by any team. Them let teams modify their boat to that standard.  Same with skid fins, rudders, etc.  The goal being to increase competition and reduce the cost of "custom made" components available to only the best financed teams. I agree whole heartedly with John--make the sport about the fans, not the owners.  The sport needs to change to attract new fans; the reluctance of those in charge to make any meaningful changes to the program is the problem.  A two day event for 10 boats running three or five lap heats certainly isn't geared to new fans either!  A more compacted one day event, with continuous, or nearly continuous, action on the water is what people want--not one to rwo hour delays between heats!  What say you, John and Randall?
 
Randall E. Roe said:

The First part of the problem, John - is no one can afford to be wrong on a big gamble. Bud is long gone, they were the last ones who had the budget to really experiment. The second part is a brutal reality of what racing is in the 21st century, all major forms of racing, Indy car, Top Fuel & Funny Car,Nascar have had to be slowed down. The days of the 50's and 60's, of always going faster, of aproaching the next "barrier" are over. The teams that have everything invested in turbines can't just sell them for scrap and switch to something else. I think we have reached the point where automotive based engines could get the job done, but it probably would have to be someone new coming in that hasn't got  a big turbine powertrain investment